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12 September 2008

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Clifford Kiracofe

But, in her Fundamentalist world, nuclear warfare is part of God's Plan. Hence, to be welcomed as a step towards the Second Advent and the millennial 1000 year reign of Christ on Earth. etc. etc.

During the End Times/Last Days the Armageddon scenario comes into play and it includes nuclear war according to such "spiritual leaders" as fellow Pentecostalist John Hagee. According to Hagee and the rest of that ilk, this is all triggered in a scenario in which Russia, China, the "Medo-Persians" and Israel are involved.

Palin's mental world is outlined in:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20712.htm

Long term treatment by a psychiatrist may be more in order.

Of course, as McCain becomes further debilitated, he could resign. Then Palin, as President, could appoint Dick Cheney as VP because he has "experience" and "knows what to do" and has that "gravitas" thing.

VietnamVet

Colonel,

I had to look up SIOP. You are correct. George W Bush, Neo-Conservatives and Corporate Media have to downplay Mutually Assured Destruction and how easy a hot headed mistake could escalate into a nuclear exchange; especially, with the Republicans running a McCain/Palin ticket. Neither one of them has the character nor the understanding to have their finger on the nuclear button.

J

Colonel,

watch ms. palin as she 'talks lightly' about nuclear war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jimNrvvCJ-A


such an individual really needs to be schooled in siop and red siop. you and i both know just how serious siop/red siop is and its ramifications. poor ms. palin i fear if she really understood siop/red siop would be quaking in her high heels and very possibly require the need to wear a depends for a day or two until she stops quaking.

ms. palin has never served in uniform, she has never been sooo fortunate to see death up close and personal (and i hope she never has to). while her young son (god bless him) is being shipped off to iraq, we all can rest assured that he will be 'taken care of' by the brass in centcom/baghdad as ms. palin is now a high probable #2 seater in the white house. the centcom/baghdad brass as well as the pentagon brass will both do everything in their powers to make sure that ms. palin's son (god bless him) is kept safe during his tour.


ms. palin's handlers also need to school her in bio-weapons as well as nuclear toys, as the russians during the heyday of the soviet union were quite adept in the bio-weapons sphere.

have a good weekend, and remember -- siop never sleeps.

looking glass anyone?

Arun

Not the correct thread for this, but Galveston and Houston could use our prayers.

Castellio

Another link to her fundamentalist background is captured at: http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10167

What is going on in the US? Is anybody awake out there?

Patrick Lang

MJ

Not at all. You still don't seem to get the differece between prediction and desire. pl

zanzibar

MJ, et al

Because of the predilection of many who come here to SST and mistake Pat's analysis as advocacy, he was categorical in the earlier thread that it was pure analysis - looking at the facts and coming to a conclusion. Its not an outcome that Pat has endorsed.

You may agree or disagree with his analysis but don't make it into a debate if its his desired outcome.

Just like the past several presidential elections when it came down to the election half the country disagreed with the outcome. We'll have the same divide this time. But...IMO, its important to consider what are the possibilities if Pat is proven correct with the election result.

My own feeling is that if the McCain/Palin ticket wins it will destroy what ever confidence the Democratic party had and they will not provide any meaningful political opposition since there will always be enough of them to vote with the Republicans to pass whatever legislation the real Jacobin neocon puppet masters want. I also believe the new administration will combine the Cheney/Nixon views on the use of power. And a lot of that power will be used against domestic political opposition and even personal vendettas. Troopergate and McCarthyism will seem like walks in the park. Additionally, Cheney's legacy of the unitary executive and the surveillance state will come into full play and become unchallenged as they get a super-majority on the Supreme Court.

The rest of the world will not get it as they do not understand our politics. They will be condescending towards the American people and shake their heads in bewilderment at how we could elect the same party that brought 8 years of chaos and the destruction of the American economy and military. Russia and China our closest competitors for hegemony will make their own decisions and act to strengthen their interests as the gale force winds of the global recession flatten many long standing edifices. We can only hope (and pray) that there will not be a miscalculation that results in massive human tragedy.

kao-hsien-chih

One thing that bugs me is that it's not just Ms. Palin that lacks an understanding of what MAD implies. I doubt a great many of American people do either. Without an appreciation of the dangers of nuclear weapons, people will not be asking such circumspection from their would-be leaders either.

We speak as if the McCain-Palin ticket is the only one that fails to appreciate the dangers...but does Obama-Biden team understand it? I personally think the Col. is overestimating the Republicans' chances...but I also don't think we'll be much better off with a Dem. win either.

Clifford Kiracofe

Castellio, All,

Good post, Engdahl presents a useful overview.

For those interested in more analysis see Sarah Posner, "God's Profits. Faith, Fraud, and the Republican Crusade for Values Votes" (PoliPoint Press, 2008) and Chris Hedges "American Fascists. The Christian Right and the War on America" (Free Press, 2006).

Pan

Pat,

I don't think a President or VP needs to understand the intricacies of the SIOP in order to do their job. The details only matter to those in the military whose job is to build and update the targeting list folder and deconflict the various scenarios and OPLANs. The President and VP needs to understand what nuclear warfare entails and where the enemy will probably target their weapons. They also need to understand the law of unintended consequences as it especially applies to nuclear warfare, and the concepts of escalation control and de-escalation.

Paul

Bob Woodward did us a favor in his recent description of George Bush: he who leads from the "gut" and not from the head. Bush's eight years were about wars and extremists. McCain/Palin promise the same.

Palin is a Bush clone by 10 clicks to the right. She does not dither with the language as did Bush but she is certain as to several life and death issues.

She is a member of an extreme religious sect making her a foot soldier in Joel's Army. Those beliefs prompted her to utter - very directly and without a lot of thought - the sentiment that we might have to attack Russia. In her world, such an attack would hasten the Rapture as the story goes. She's hot to trot for Armageddon!

The SIOP is a cookbook for the baking or par-boiling half of humanity. General/President Eisenhower was said to be frightened when he first saw it.

Understanding SIOP and its meaning is not something that can be brifed on Power Point. One needs a fairly extensive background in science, military matters and foreign affairs.

Ms Palin, the hockey mom and small town mayor has not been in the right places to study and learn about things like SIOP. She is not yet ready to stand behind the old man with the itchy trigger finger. Her gut feel and certitude make her dangerous. On the other hand, Obama similarly lacks worldly experience but as a senator he has been exposed to these things and he has shown to possess a thinking mind and even-handed demeanor.

Thank you for bringing up SIOP. Hey, maybe that's what's in McCain's mind as a way to "win": drop a "nukular" bomb on 'em.

William R. Cumming

There are very few who really understand the fundamental decisions reflected in the SIOP, this includes the senior flag ranks, including delegations of authority. Hopefully the war reserve code cards are never broken.

Cieran

I'd like to second kao-hsien-chih's assertion about the lack of understanding found in the American people about the nature of their nuclear arsenal. Our citizens seem to think that nuclear weapons are just bigger versions of conventional munitions, and hence they have not grasped the true meaning of the middle initial in the acronym "WMD".

But what truly astonishes me is how so-called "Christian" candidates like Palin can discuss war with Russia (or Iran, or wherever) with such a cavalier attitude. No one who dares to call themselves "pro-life" can honestly consider killing hundreds of millions of living human beings. That's not warfare, nor foreign policy: it's mass murder on a scale that has not yet been seen in human history. It is evil incarnate.

There's absolutely nothing "Christian" about those supporters of the GOP who desire to use military force early and often, when said force could likely lead to nuclear war. And that's a fundamentally important understanding that needs to be driven home in this election.

jamzo

bush's restatement of the "bush doctrine" coinciedes with charlie gibson's question to sarah palin

earlier this week bush informed the country that he had "authorized" us military "raids" into pakistan from afghanistan without agreement from the pakistan government


of course bush made this public after bhutto's husband zardari became president of pakistan

the press took little notice of bush's revelation

and then this subplot is part of the pakistan story

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9503E7DE1F3AF935A1575BC0A96E9C8B63

U.N. Envoy's Ties to Pakistani Are Questioned

By HELENE COOPER AND MARK MAZZETTI; HELENE COOPER REPORTED FROM WASHINGTON, AND MARK MAZZETTI FROM NEW YORK.
Published: August 26, 2008
Zalmay Khalilzad, the American ambassador to the United Nations, is facing angry questions from other senior Bush administration officials over what they describe as unauthorized contacts with Asif Ali Zardari, a contender to succeed Pervez Musharraf as president of Pakistan.

Mr. Khalilzad had spoken by telephone with Mr. Zardari, the leader of the Pakistan Peoples Party, several times a week for the past month until he was confronted about the unauthorized contacts, a senior United States official said. Other officials said Mr. Khalilzad had planned to meet with Mr. Zardari privately next Tuesday while on vacation in Dubai, in a session that was canceled only after Richard A. Boucher, the assistant secretary of state for South Asia, learned from Mr. Zardari himself that the ambassador was providing ''advice and help.''

''Can I ask what sort of 'advice and help' you are providing?'' Mr. Boucher wrote in an angry e-mail message to Mr. Khalilzad. ''What sort of channel is this? Governmental, private, personnel?'' Copies of the message were sent to others at the highest levels of the State Department; the message was provided to The New York Times by an administration official who had received a copy.

Officially, the United States has remained neutral in the contest to succeed Mr. Musharraf, and there is concern within the State Department that the discussions between Mr. Khalilzad and Mr. Zardari, the widower of Benazir Bhutto, a former prime minister, could leave the impression that the United States is taking sides in Pakistan's already chaotic internal politics.

John Howley

Timely!
This WaPo article does not mention SIOP although perhaps the Task Force report does....
+++++++++++
Unified Nuclear Command Urged
By Ann Scott Tyson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, September 13, 2008; A08

Secretary of Defense Robert M. Gates yesterday called on the Air Force to establish clear and unified control over the nation's nuclear arsenal, after a new report by a Pentagon task force concluded that the service had neglected its stewardship of such weapons for more than a decade.

"Today no senior leader in the Air Force 'owns' the nuclear mission," concluded the eight-member task force, appointed by Gates and chaired by former defense secretary James R. Schlesinger. "The current organization is not properly structured."

Jon T.

I just read the Engdahl article on Dominionism and my only response is that Dietrich Bonhoeffer was hanged for holding his truth and some of his friends begged him to let go of it.

Patrick Lang

All

I added some old numbers on effects of the SIOPS. I reckon the president needs to know a lot about this subject. It is the most basic context for presidential decision about whether or not to "fight Russia." pl

xerxes

Here is something that may help you sleep at night. Look at Palin as being nothing more than a sock puppet for the rich in America. After all who in their right mind would vote for a party that aims only to make the richer and made no attempt to hide its intentions to the contrary? As for her religious beliefs are they no different from Reagan's and we survived eight years of him (see Gore Vidal's essay on Ronnie's views on Armageddon). The most interesting phenomena in this election is why the "evangelicals" will still bother to turn out and vote Republican. Even after twenty years worth of Bushes and Reagan, they still have not got a ban on abortion let alone a re-introduction of school prayer. When will they ever wake up and see that they are being taken advantage of? But did not Bush I refer to them once as the "extra chromosome brigade"?

stanley Henning

By focusing on the surge, McCain is showing himself to be a real amateur on the world stage. In the first place, the "preemptive" attack on Iraq in combination with many other factors (economic related) which should have been considered, but clearly were not, has placed us in a perilous situation when considering, Russia, China, Iran, and even North Korea, let alone the real and immediate objective in Afghanistan. The surge has likely merely caused Muqtada al-Sadr to adjust his strategy and, in spite of all our expenditures in lives and funds, the chances of Iraq continuing in a state of civil war and ultimately siding with Iran are all too possible. We really need leadership with a strategic perspective to manage not only our interests, but our very survival, in this world. It is not enough that we had been number one until recently. Without true strategic vision we have already essentially lost the number one position despite our incredible destructive military technology. The key is LEADERSHIP that understands when to act and WHEN NOT TO do stupid, self-destructive things.

Pan

Perhaps Obama should just recommend McCain and Palin take JFK's advice and read "The Guns of August."

"...This combination of combustible elements poses the greatest threat to global stability since the 1962 Cuban missile crisis, history's only nuclear superpower confrontation. The Cuba crisis, although immensely dangerous, was comparatively simple: It came down to two leaders and no war. In 13 days of brilliant diplomacy, John F. Kennedy induced Nikita Khrushchev to remove Soviet missiles from Cuba.

Kennedy was deeply influenced by Barbara Tuchman's classic, "The Guns of August," which recounted how a seemingly isolated event 92 summers ago -- an assassination in Sarajevo by a Serb terrorist -- set off a chain reaction that led in just a few weeks to World War I. There are vast differences between that August and this one. But Tuchman ended her book with a sentence that resonates in this summer of crisis: 'The nations were caught in a trap, a trap made during the first thirty days out of battles that failed to be decisive, a trap from which there was, and has been, no exit.'"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/09/AR2006080901514.html

Allen Thomson

Way back in the late '80s, one of the annexes to an NIE 11-3/8 had a map showing the estimated RISOP laydown on CONUS: lots of red circles.

I keep hoping that will be released, but in the meantime FEMA's essentially equal take on the matter is available at http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/napb-90/index.html .

Strudel & Shotguns

Sir,
Would you suppose the Russian boomers getting ready for missile firing exercises from positions in the Bering Sea, off Alaska, have anything at all to do with Redneck Diana's bloviating about "perhaps so" going to war with Russia? Naahhh...gotta be a coincidence.
Link to story: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,24339330-38200,00.html

Farmer Don

Just in from Harvest, so a little slow in reading Col. Lang's prediction of Rep. Victory.

The United States will soon find out it can no longer be run on auto-pilot.

It's economy who's main engines of growth were housing construction, financial services, and military spending all fueled by debit is coming to an end.

This does not necessarily mean that everything is going to go hell in a hand basket. But it will require good governance to steer the great resources of the USA to it's next economy. What that economy is no one knows for sure now, but my guess would be more domestic energy infrastructure, less military spending, less/more? free trade, new banking regulations, etc. etc. I think also the US will be forced into more realistic relations with other countries.
Hey, throw in to the mix what what this post is about; nuclear destruction of the planet!

The next President may well have the most challenging job since FDR.

At this transition point, a President who is not REALITY BASED will cause great damage to the USA and the world in general.

PS.
Maybe keep one non reality based program. The US Ethanol program is making this Canadian farmer some spending cash!!!

Curious

Why wait until the war when you can guesstimate the panic now...


-----
Polygon test (real russian nuke test gone bad, with fall out map)
http://technology.newscientist.com/channel/tech/nuclear/mg14619772.300


Chernobyl fall out map
http://swenglishrantings.com/Politics/?p=228

Exposure of American People to I-131 (Radioactive Iodine)
from Nevada Nuclear Bomb Tests in the 1950s and 1960s
http://www.nukepills.com/nuclear-dirty-bombs.htm


The lovely map. (watch that real estate value, baby. In case there is nuke war with Russia. I've heard nuclear winter is a big cold. But will even out the global warming I suppose)

My suggestion: either start evolving and develop radioactive resistance genes or elect a leader who doesn't think pushing the big red button is some kind of neat statement.

http://www.parowanprophet.com/Nuclear_War_Comes/target_map.htm

jonst

MJ,

Those (not you MJ)just generic "those"; but those who do not understand "...the difference between prediction and desire", and there are many of them, do not understand what has happened the last 7 years in the nation.

However, MJ, I do want to respond to something you wrote...and I am not being sarcastic, I am, whether right or wrong, deadly serious; is it POSSIBLE to be too "shallow" to run for President, today, in America?

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