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04 September 2008

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zanzibar

I suppose the real question is what does Barack Obama think? Since we know that Joe Biden supposedly claims to be a "zionist" or whatever he means by that

Are we obligated to enter into another war in the Middle East because Israel made a unilateral choice? This is an important question that both presidential candidates Barack Obama and John McCain should answer. Will they be asked this at one of the debates? Anyone want to wager?

Matthew

Col: Playing the uber-Zion card usually is risk free. You get help from AIPAC and other Zionist groups at election time and the State Department tells the Saudis, "What can we do?"

IMHO, those days are ending and our interests are really diverging. Biden, however, is impulsive and wants to win. Obama had to work hard to neutralize the "Muslim" smear campaign. Biden, who isn't the decider, is just covering his back. (He was probably hoping that you wouldn't notice.)

Sadly, this is SOB in our government.

Bill W, NH, USA

From the UK Guardian:

"Joe Biden said yesterday that he and running mate Barack Obama could pursue criminal charges against the Bush administration if they are elected in November.

"...Biden's comments, first reported by ABC news, attracted little notice on a day dominated by the drama surrounding his Republican counterpart, Alaska governor Sarah Palin.

But his statements represent the Democrats' strongest vow so far this year to investigate alleged misdeeds committed during the Bush years.

"If there has been a basis upon which you can pursue someone for a criminal violation, they will be pursued," Biden said during a campaign event in Deerfield Beach, Florida, according to ABC."

This was Joe Biden on Fox News this morning.


"Biden emphasized that "no one's talking about President Bush. ... I've never heard anybody mention President Bush in that context." He noted that "there's been an awful lot of unsavory stuff that's gone on ... but I have no evidence of any of that. No one's talking about pursuing President Bush criminally."

So, as far as I'm concerned, no one knows what Biden would do regarding an Israeli attack on Iran, he's just another DC liar.

Dumass

"Biden: Israel's decisions must be made in Jerusalem, not D.C."

Fine, and vice versa too! Israel makes its decisions based on its best interests, The U.S. makes its decisions based on ITS best interest...

Jose

1. It is an election year

2. Senator Biden has been criticized by AIPAC for being soft on bombing Iran.

3. The Senator knows Israel can not do it by itself, so it's a safe stupidity to say.

William R. Cumming

Are there any secret arrangements between the US and Israel? Meaning arrangements that rise to the level of guarantees or treaties? Legal as opposed to what some may think are moral obligations?

Clifford Kiracofe

1. He takes an interesting position on Iran which seems in line with stated Obama's open mindedness:

""McCain says it's status quo or war - and there's nothing in between. We all know Iran is weak and weak economically," Biden said. "We should stop making Iran into this 12-foot giant. They are not. They are not. The more we do that, the more we undercut our own self-interest."

"Biden also questioned the wisdom of a pre-emptive U.S.-led attack on Iran, at a time when the U.S. is "bogged-down in Iraq," adding that he has been "stunned by the incompetence" of the Bush administration in its handling of the war in Iraq.

"Biden defended his opposition to the Kyl-Lieberman Iran amendment, which calls for labeling Iran's Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization and passed by a vote of 76 - 22, saying that he didn't want to help the government find a "pretext for war with Iran," especially in light of what he described as the Bush administration's inept handling of the war in Iraq."

2. Seems a bit muddled on Lebanon and Hizbullah.

"Biden accused the Bush administration of neglecting the security of Israel's northern border after the Second Lebanon War, saying, "Look what we did in regard to Lebanon - we insisted with the French that the Syrians pull out - but we should have been fully engaged training Lebanese to fill in the void in the South so it wouldn't be filled by Hezbollah - and surprise surprise! - Hezbollah fills up the void! And when Israel pulled out, and we, instead of jumping in as I proposed, to help rebuild down there - now once again we ended with Iranians once again providing the Hezbollah with money to help people to rebuild their houses."

3. " Meanwhile, Obama campaign spokeswoman Wendy Morigi put out the following statement late Wednesday: "Barack Obama and Joe Biden have both enjoyed close and effective cooperation with AIPAC over many years, grounded in their respect for its important mission to support Israel's security and a strong U.S.-Israel relationship."
All duly noted in Haaretz:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1017891.html


taters

Well that was my first thought, Col. Lang. I certainly hope we'll hear some clarification. Then again I won't hold my breath..

robt willmann

If Barack Obama is elected president of the U.S., we will find out very quickly what kind of man he is.

You never know what sort of maneuvering, wheeling and dealing, blackmail, intimidation, and so forth goes on in the selection of a vice-presidential running mate.

When I heard that Obama was having Biden be his VP, my reaction was disgust. The support for that opinion would take longer than the proper length for a comment, but suffice it to say that the "old cause" Democrat--a person who might want to try to help the "little guy" at least a little bit--is not Joe Biden. As the point man for the Democrats to shepherd through the vicious bankruptcy bill, he helped it pass and president Bush jr. signed it: a bill that was so bad that when it passed while Bill Clinton--a servant of the money brokers--was president, he killed it with a pocket veto.

And now Biden is acting on "foreign policy" regarding Israel in what role? Is he talking to the Israeli press with the knowledge and approval of Obama as to the content of his statements and promises?

Surely Obama knows that the Arab and Persian people can read, too, and plenty of them keep their eye on the Israeli press. Biden is not helping Obama by mouthing off in absolute terms about support for Israel which, it has recently been asserted by Arnaud de Borchgrave (UPI editor at large), made a secret deal with the country of Georgia to use two of its airfields for any airstrike against Iran.

Mr. de Borchgrave entitles his commentary, "Israel of the Caucasus".

http://www.metimes.com/Security/2008/09/02/commentary_israel_of_the_caucasus/f5e1/

This of course raises the question of whether Biden can be trusted if a president Obama wants to try to better relationships in the Middle East.

When retired Gen. Wesley Clark tried to help Obama neutralize John McCain's continual promotion of his war experience, Obama threw Clark under the bus.

Meanwhile, the U.S. and who knows who else launched a helicopter raid September 3 inside Pakistan around South Waziristan, shot up a few houses, and killed some people.

http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=329449

http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=329261

People here and in the western media don't seem to realize that the Waziristan tribes have their own code of conduct and honor that they actually take seriously, and they seem almost genetically immune to intimidation. Their history apparently has been the desire to be left alone.

A man with considerable experience in Pakistan and Afghanistan who has written on Pakistani military matters told me today that he figures the military incursion into Waziristan will probably result in 10,000+ new recruits to groups opposed to the U.S.A.

different clue

At the very least, Biden might have said: "Israel's decisions will be made in West Jerusalem, not in Washington D.C." He might have gone further and said:
"And Palestine's decisions will eventually have to be made in East Jerusalem and nowhere else." That would have been being pro-both. Ah well...if only.

His sentiments are still preferable to Palin's sentiments, which would amount to: we have to encourage a war of nuclear annihilation throughout the middle east, to hasten the Return of Christ and the Advent of his Thousand Year Kingdom on Earth.

And realistically, that's the choice we have been given. Biden. Or Palin. Voting Third Party would be a gesture, not an option.

Keith

I think the following part is interesting. It kind of gets in the way of the idea that he is just kissing up to AIPAC, right?

----------

Biden dismissed the prominent role played by the pro-Israel lobby AIPAC, saying the group "doesn't speak for the entire Jewish community," and it "doesn't speak for the state of Israel, no matter what it insists on any occasion."

Arun

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=17057

Headline News
Monday, September 01, 2008 Israel Today Staff

Biden told Israel to accept nuclear Iran

US Senator and vice presidential hopeful Joe Biden reportedly told Israeli officials three years ago that sooner or later they would have to reconcile themselves to the reality of a nuclear-armed Iran.

Israel's Army Radio reported on the remarks, which Biden is said to have made to visiting Israeli officials in his capacity as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

According to the report, Biden reaffirmed to the Israelis his rejection of military action against Iran, but also admitted that diplomatic efforts to halt Iran's nuclear program had little or no chance of success. In essence, Biden resigned himself to the idea of a nuclear-armed Iran and told the Israelis that they, too, would have to accept that outcome.

---

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1220186495107&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Sep 1, 2008 9:49 | Updated Sep 2, 2008 21:57
Biden camp says report on Iran a lie
By JERUSALEM POST STAFF

A spokesman for US Democratic vice presidential candidate Joseph Biden on Monday scathingly rejected an Army Radio report which claimed Biden told Jerusalem officials three years ago that he firmly opposed an attack on Iran's nuclear facilities and that Israel would likely have to come to terms with a nuclear Iran.

'Biden's position on Iran has Israel concerned'

"This is a lie peddled by partisan opponents of Senators Obama and Biden and we will not tolerate anyone questioning Senator Biden's 35-year record of standing up for the security of Israel," Biden's press secretary, David Wade, said in a statement.

Too much election year politics swirling around this.

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