Can outsiders manage change in alien cultures?

In the immediate aftermath of the Iraq intervention it was striking that the Jacobin neocon crowd were of the opinion that traditional (dare I say classic) Middle Eastern and Islamic culture was of little or no value in humanist terms and, in fact, is a barrier to the emergence of "modern" man and "modern" societies.  Social revolution was their goal throughout the region.  Some of this sentiment had its roots in their strange, shared educational background.  Some of it was clearly rooted in a desire to provide a friendly environment for Israel.

By 2006, the application of their ideas had nearly led to disaster as the Iraq Project foundered on the shoals of resistance provided by the very culture that the neocons so despised and feared.

Now that the situation has improved, the same people are busy revising history to justify future application of the notion of coerced social revolution in the region.  Anyone who thinks that Jacobin neoconism is in retreat is deceived.   The Iraq war situation has been ameliorated (from the American point of view) through the use of methods traditional to Middle Eastern and colonial history.  Divide and rule works as well today as it has always worked, regardless of whom is doing the dividing and who is being divided.  Humans are easily divided on the basis of their perceived group interests.  There is no evidence that they will ever be any different.  Anything else is merely wishful thinking.

The local cultures in the Middle East and Islamic "worlds" are very strong.  They are likely to change at their own pace, influenced by the flood tides of information in the world today, but they will strongly resist change at anyone else's pace. 

The belief that outsiders can "manage" that change is as destructive today as it has always been. 

Walrus has provided the following rejoinder to the ideas of Spider Rider.

Strike up the band!

pl

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With respect Spider Rider; "What DOES it really take to establish some sort of democracy in the Middle East?" "But how do we play off of this, and establish the middle east, so the middle easterners WANT a democratic type system, so it emerges, and grows, through sound policy, and not corrupt business?" You are making the fatal assumption that in the Middle East democracy is automatically seen by all as a good thing. The reality is that only a tiny Western educated elite in most Middle Eastern countries have any liking for democracy, and the general population views them with great suspicion. Then you make the assumption that it is somehow our right to overturn their culture and social structures and force them into adopting a political system that is alien to them. ....And then we get all upset when they push back? To put it another way, what would your reaction be if Saudi Arabia decided that sharia law is what America needs and proceeded to do everything in it's power(missionaries, economic aid, mosques, financial inducements, let alone withholding oil supplies) to ram it down your throat? The first requirement is to understand the societies concerned and then do what is possible within the structures of Tribe, Clan, Family and Religious belief to advance the causes of Peace, Free Markets and human Rights as laid out in the U.N. declaration on the subject... ....Oh Wait! We don't have no time for them liberals in the U.N.!

Walrus

Comments

[TomB]

Spider Rider wrote:

"This isn't personal.
Why are you making it such?"

Spider Rider:

Pfui. Too busy to care personally and there's not a single such syllable in my entire prior post. Why not just respond substantively?

A little obvious, dude.

Cheers,

[Walrus]

Spider:

"no one is acknowledging the US need for oil, integrated with future world strategic defense position"

I think, Sir, we all acknowledge the US need for oil, the problem is that, as President Bush correctly states, the US is "addicted" to oil.

The available solutions are therefore:

1. Do nothing and maintain the addiction.

2. Maintain the addiction and corner the world's supply of oil.

3. Kick the oil habit.

President Bush's policy seems to be number Two.

As for a world strategic defence position, defence from what? Name the threat.

[Curious]

The more Condi talks peace, the weirder military news become. (any update on the parading Israel generals to WH/Pentagon?)

http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/007739.html

Military blogger Defense Springboard notes that Congress has been notified by a Defense panel that Israel has requested purchase of double the amount of jet fuel (JP-8) it purchased last year. "'On July 11, the Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Israel of unleaded gasoline, JP-8 aviation jet fuel, and diesel fuel. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $1.3 billion. The Government of Israel has requested a possible sale of 28,000,000 gallons of unleaded gasoline, 186,000,000 gallons of JP-8 aviation jet fuel, and 54,000,000 gallons of diesel fuel. The estimated cost is $1.3 billion.' ... JP-8 requests are not new....But the size of the buy is impressive. In July 2006, Israel requested up to $210 dollars-worth of JP-8. In September 2004, Israel requested up to $102 million dollars worth of JP-8...."

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also, tell me this is not idiocy. People has been talking how condi can sustain her war mongering with oil price so high. (now they are talking... "unforeseeable"?

Whew, give it few more week and see her performance. We are going to talk about the beginning of dollar run.

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Indeed, a US official involved with Iran policy wrote me a couple weeks back that high oil prices had severely crimped their policy: "It’s clear that the two-track policy put in place a number of years ago (incentives vs. sanctions) has been overtaken somewhat by the unforeseeable and dramatic rise in oil prices. Iran’s GDP has doubled, and they are more isolated from the effects of economic sanctions. At the same time the Iranians have made significant progress on enrichment. There are many, many more economic sanctions in the quiver, but we have carefully resisted imposing economic sanctions, unilaterally or multilaterally, that would significantly affect the Iranian people. Our goal remains an Iran without nuclear weapons, and our strategy remains the two-track approach. In light of the rise in oil prices and Iran’s enrichment achievements, the interim objectives that the two-track strategy should be aiming to achieve is something everyone is looking at, and there is no question that there is a way forward. ..."

http://www.warandpiece.com/blogdirs/007738.html

[Dana Jones]

I have to agree with Duncan Kinder, and in addition add that foreign investment markets are starting to see Wall Street for what it really has become: A Three-Card Monte game. The whole thing is now rigged only to generate profits for those at the top of the pyramid. Look at the news regarding Starbucks: Stores were being opened purely to meet Wall St expectations, and for no other legitimate reason.
So if we are becoming isolated, its of our own making, we have exported our jobs and our debt, the only thing we have left to export is bombs & bullets, and even giving them away (joke here) is having a negative effect at home. Now the military is so stretched that if the Afganis & Pakistanis get into it, we will have very little options except to observe and keep our fingers crossed in the hope things work out our way, as we can no longer have any real influence for the positive. The NeoKlowns have screwed things up so badly that it would take a twenty year term for Obama to even try to fix.
God help us if McCain is elected instead, we will just see a continuation of failed NeoKlown policies.