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19 June 2006

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zanzibar

Why is it we always get the guys at the low end of the totem pole and never the folks that created the environment and made the big decisions that got these kids in the mess in the first place?

W. Patrick Lang

zanzibar

They are not "kids." Don't insult them in that way. pl

zanzibar

PL

I am not excusing behavior nor meant to insult these soldiers but many of them are still teenagers. My question is why do they get roasted all the time when the big guys who made all those decisions about getting these young soldiers into such a situation go scot free? What does that say about our system?

W. Patrick Lang

Zanji


If you look at the ages you will find that in the army not many are teenagers.

The marines seem to attract younger people. pl

zanzibar

PL

I was at a hotel lobby in Frankfurt couple years ago when the place was taken over by a National Guard unit enroute to Iraq. The few I spoke with were very young. I don't know if they were teenagers or in their early twenties.

W. Patrick Lang

Zanji

Wars are fought by young men. Us old people might want to be useful but are not.

The age matters. In the case of the Guard, if you look at the ages of the dead you will find, I think, that they are not, "kids." Maybe they joined the Guard because they needed the extra money, but, I always took my pay check.

I was 22 when I commanded 44 infantrymen. I am grateful to my sergeants for having taken the time to educate me.

The 101st guys in the hands of the enemy were in their mid twenties.

God keep them safe. pl

Green Zone Cafe

The guys we have in Iraq are great.

They are smart and quirky, too - I've seen guys reading Pynchon. Most have good relations with Iraqis who come in friendly contact with them.

The problem is the length of the tours and the repeated tours are killing these guys. There is no safe zone in Iraq - they are on duty 24/7, and everytime they roll out the gate they face death.

Rumsfeld fought expanding the size of the Army, so the result is, those unfortunate enough to have enlisted or make it a career find themselves extended in Iraq, stop-lossed, or rotated back in less than a year.

This is one of the most morally indefensible things Rumsfeld has done - ensured that the burden would be borne by these few, without relief.

W. Patrick Lang

Greenie

So, why does he hate the Army? pl

Patrick Henry

Col. Lang...It Appers he Has No Compassion or Conerned regard for the welfare of our troops to me..

that same .Disregard seems

to extend to Our Veterans and Thier Benefits or any real show of Appreciation
for thier Serivce..

If I understand correctly
that thier Benefits are being cut out of Administration Budgets..

Rumsfelds attitude and Involvement all along have been a Mystery..and Disregard for any advice about Proper Military Proceedure..

It appears to me that our Combat Troops are being Used and Abused beyond all Standard Limits of Protocol
and proceedure..

you are Right...Don rumsfelds apparent insensivity to the Plight of Our Troops..Makes One Wonder if He really has contempt for them..or such a total Lack of Sensitivity..that he doesnt even consider them Human Beings ..or Fellow Citizens..

They are there to serve him and Obey Orders..Period...Just Do Your Duty..The Way THE DON RUMSFELD PEOPLE WANT IT DONE..

I am amazed that Commanders who know how tired our troops are..and the situation on the Ground..allow thier troopers to keep going through this without Protest or Objections..

I dont think they have ever gotten the full support they needed and many other people WHo KNOW
have said the same tyhing..

Why has there been so much Public criticism of Don Rumsfeld and his handeling of the War..and Treatment of Our Troops..??

There is enough Criticism now...to make it Clear the Critcisms are True and Warranted..

Qustion...Since President Bush spends alot of time getting Press standing in front of Military Personnel..and Our Troops..
Are the Troops REQUIRED to Applaude and/or cheer him ..giving the Impression that He has thier FULL Support and Approval..???

That is certainl;y the Impression I get out of those Appearances..

I think Its a Political Move...Staged to make it look like He has the full support of the military in the War and with POLICY..

If so,...I think Our Troops are being abused ..if they are part of some political Plan or Strategy to make the President look good..

Are the Troops being ordered to do that..or Encouraged to do that during Assembly prior to his appearance..?/


Or are thier Cheers Honest and Spontaneous..and Heart Felt..??

Does he really have that kind of support from the Troops..??

Does Don Rumsfled really have the Heart Felt support of the Troops..?/

so much so...that they will keep staying until they Die ..Get Mutilated or just run themselfs Into the Ground..??

I am really Curious about these Questions..

And..I feel Strong Grief and Concern for Our Troops..
Because I Love and Admire them So Much..

They are the World Finest..

They are Americans Best Sons and Daughters..

They deserve the BEST..

If its True they arent and Havent been getting All They NEED..

Then Pissed Off People Who KNOW..Better be kickin some Ass and Taking Names..

Colonial Lang...thank you for Your Obvious Concern and Voice...I Hope you get lots of Media..

You and Your Band of BROTHERS..

zanzibar

PL

I assume you mean this story.
Al Qaeda linked group claims it kidnapped 2 US soldiers

Contrast with this:

Why Bush is Winning the war at home

"I was up there in the cockpit of that airplane coming into Baghdad," the President told the press corps assembled on the White House lawn after his dash into and out of the war zone last week. "It was an unbelievable, unbelievable feeling."

linda

i'm certainly not excusing the alleged crimes, however, it is a logical outgrowth of this mentality:

"General Formica found that in the third case at a Special Operations outpost, near Tikrit, in April and May 2004, three detainees were held in cells 4 feet high, 4 feet long and 20 inches wide, except to use the bathroom, to be washed or to be interrogated. He concluded that two days in such confinement "would be reasonable; five to seven days would not." Two of the detainees were held for seven days; one for two days, General Formica concluded."

http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=21284

what more depravities will be revealed, only to be justified, dismissed and ignored. what has happened to this country.

Green Zone Cafe

Colonel, I don't know why he hates the Army - I just read in the current issue of American Veteran that it was Rumsfeld that took away the executive flight mission from the Army and gave it to the Marines during his first tour as SoD.

But, as PH says, it's more a numbers game with him - he wants to keep personnel costs down, so I don't think they Marine end-strength troop levels either.

They've "run the numbers" and decided that this is where they achieve maximum benefit out of their dollars. And, as has been pointed out elsewhere, the generals go along to avoid having wizbang weapons projects being cut.

Pity the poor GI caught in this, though.

Green Zone Cafe

Meant to say "didn't think they increased Marine troop strength levels either."

zanzibar

"three detainees were held in cells 4 feet high, 4 feet long and 20 inches wide" - linda

No chance to stand or lie down . And held like that for days. That's cruel and sadistic. What a shame!

Just hope our soldiers if they get caught by Iraqi groups don't get this type of treatment.

zanzibar

Two missing US soldiers found dead

May the families find some peace.

ked

I think Rummy "hates" the Army because it pushes back when he directs dubious missions & makes ridiculous policy. Also, in his mind's eye, the Army does not project his personal dynamism (he's big on that). He likes the USMC because he was Navy. More importantly, USMC leadership will happily take any job he gives it, (projecting a "will do" attitude even in the face of contrary facts)expecting to gain vs the Army inside the Pentagon's missions, manpower & acquisition games.

Rummy is a guy manipulated by his own psyche & willfully blind to his own falability. He is the worst kind of leader, masquerading as the best.

jonst

Linda,

In response to your question regarding 'depravities" to be ignored. Try this

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/

Look for the Barton G post on Suskind's new book. If this can be believed...and I do, well, what can I really say that has not been said already.

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