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27 June 2006

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zanzibar

Will there ever be a peaceful solution between the Israelis and Palestinians?

This seems to be a conflict from millenia ago although exacerbated by the post-colonial remaking of the Middle East. Hamas is now the legitimately elected government in whatever sliver is considered Palestine. Israel has believed in iron-fisted policies relative to the Palestinians at least since the 70s (I don't know the prior history that well).

Arafat and Barak came close under the cajoling of Clinton but as PL has pointed out the Arab "consensus" did not provide Arafat the ability to negotiate Jerusalem.

So is the end result that Israel will get rid of the problem by "walling" the Palestinians into very narrow slivers of land and basically encourage a civil war so that the Palestinians will effectively kill themselves to oblivion? Or just crush the Palestinians in a much more direct and overt manner using sheer military muscle? Or contain them by effectively sealing the Palestinian areas? The Palestinians obviously have no chips. Israel has the overwhelming military superiority and the financing and political support of the US and other western powers.

confusedponderer

I'm quite pessimistic that Israelis and Palestinians will ever be able to live in peace.

In Israel the right fringe is becoming more and more less fringe but right wing. They bred and breed out the moderates. Jewish zealots have birthrates of about 5-7 or so children whereas the moderates habe 'western standard' size families. At the same time an increasing number of frustrated Israelis immigrates to Canada or the US or to New Zealand, Australia and Europe.

The right wingers will never abandon Israel. They fight for blood and soil. Israel will not become more moderate in the future, to the contrary. The result will probably be an Israel that will act even more agressive.
That will bring them into serious trouble (finally even in the US) as far as their moral standing is concerned.

As for the palestinians, they are fighting with their wombs too - sooner or later they will be the majority in what was once their country. Why should they back off? And then there is the religious angle of the whole thing.

What we see is a locked conflict that's not going to get better.

Curious

Yep.

Hamas wants full and independent Palestine. not clear how much land they want, but DEFINITELY a lot more than what Israel is ready to give.

What's more, Israel is really scared against Hamas. They know Hamas is the real deal unlike Fatah. So they gonna pre-empt and attack while we are in the middle east. (cause once we disengage and leave Iraq, they are screwed. They have to fight alone)

what's more once Hamas get their house in order and make peace with Fatah. It's over, we have an official independence war for Palestine. It may take 4-6 months, it may take 40-60 years. but they gonna get it once they are unified.

Curious

Whoa baby....

Israel is REALLLY desperte trying to pick up a fight.

after bombing Gaza 3 times, then that "kidnapped" soldiers, then bombing bridges in Gaza.

Now they are flying plane over Syrian Kings.


All within less than 5 days. (after nothing happens for 3 months??? nothing...not peep, not a pop. Hamas didn't even made a provocative statments in the past months. Even now Hamas doesn't bother making a statement and just keeping it quiet)

seriously....suddenly Israel has all these problem?

yeah okay.

Somebody REALLY has to pull the plug on to those mofos. They gonna keep throwing wrench on any diplomatic effort we keep to stabilize the region. (I mean, if we leave what they gonna do? fight alone? Not even the Russians like them anymore.)

Curious

Israel is pulling exact same trick they did to Arafat offices. Notice that Hamas didn't do anything in the past 3 months after getting elected. And then right at the moment we try to negotiate with Iran, everything goes to hell.

haa...!

score one for my prediction. (Israel going to launch attack/assasination against Hamas.

next. Will hamas declare war against Israel or will they bet the world will stand on their side. (Israel afterall is snuffing elected officials)

I for one am giving it about 4 weeks until Condi and Bush incompetence let the Israel/Palestinian conflicts gets out of hand and turns into real war.

This will spread to Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi, and of course Iraq.

We are toast. We'll be seen as zionist stooge in the area.

... well that was an easy prediction. Wasn't it.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&u=/ap/20060629/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians_292

Hamas officials said more than 30 lawmakers have been arrested in the West Bank.

Palestinian security officials said Israeli forces detained the Palestinian deputy prime minister, Nasser Shaer, and three other Cabinet ministers, as well as four lawmakers in Ramallah. Several others were arrested in the town of Jenin, they said.

Israeli media reported a roundup of Hamas lawmakers in Jerusalem and other locations.

Also, the Hamas mayor of the West Bank town of Qalqiliya and his deputy were detained, security officials said.

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