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11 January 2006

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angela

General Odom predicted in his argument for withdrawal that the Shiite militias and Iran would wait until after the eclections to assert their power.

They have us over the barrel I think. Hakim's claim that the constitution can not be seriously amended either discredits us a lot or discredits us quite a bit and forces us into bargaining.

They do remember how Sistani forced elections.

The administration has decided not to ask for more funding for AID right after responsibilit for reconstruction passes from Rumsfeld to State.

I don't know if this is purely political spite or an indicator that we don't plan to "stay the course," wither way it seems a move back to the style that aggravated the probems from the beginning.

It would not surprise me that if we fail to offer new funds that people like Hakim and others will demand an accounting of the many billions of Iraqi money the CPA spent on dubious projects.

I supported the move by us and the British to try and reform the prisons and police, but it does look like it will lead to a showdown between us and the ruling elements of the new government.

Politically so much is at stake domesticaly, the situation must be deemed a success I expect we will back down. Which I expect will lead Sunni throughout the middle east to believe we are parties to their suppression in Iraq.

Jerome Gaskins

"Is Justice not more important than Peace?"

As I read your words, Colonel, I felt the memories of so many people throughout history who have asked that question with the ruin of their lives...

W. Patrick Lang

Jerome

And what is your answer?

PL

John Howley

The Shiite groups you mention are closely tied to the Iranian government. How do recent events in the two countries relate? U.S. "tilts" to Sunnis in Iraq and Teheran breaks the seals on nuclear materials and otherwise provokes the U.S. Probably just a coincidence...

Jerome Gaskins

Well, you know what they say in LA:

"No Justice, no Peace"

How long can an aggrieved party swallow their injuries in the interest of peace? It's not like the offender is going to repent; in fact, they will be more likely to offend.

I may be wrong, but I've always believed that the ills suffered by so many people and ignored in the interest of peace are the sole reason for all forms of terrorism.

W. Patrick Lang

Jerome

You sound like Dr. Spock, and not the one with th pointy ears. everything is nor about frustration leading to aggression. pl

Patrick Henry

Pat..Your Point is well taken ..The Article makes it clear that there are Many Forces and Influences Involved in Iraq..
We` have Americas desire for Western style "Civilized" democracy..and "JUSTICE"...and THE various Iraqi Tribes
and Cultures forming a Government based on all thier personal and cultural beliefs..

All of the Muslims and cultures.. and nieghboring Middle East countrys and many levels of Leadership all over the place .. have an Interest inthese events.. and are taking sides and Forming alliances..
Its getting close to the entire region now bwing divided 50/50 between moderation and support for the Bin Ladens and Jihadists..They are "IDOLIZED" super Heros..

This is much bigger than Just Iraq..It is one of the Biggest On going Events in History Today....I see that you reconginze that Pat.. with all of Your knowledge and Expertise on the Middle East and Its Long History..This has to be a Fascinating study for you..

The Rest of us only see the tip of the Ice Berg..and have limited understanding..

The media does no documentarys on whats going on behind the scenes..in the Entire Region..or long range consequences..

Now that the Administration has opened this can of Worms by Invading Iraq..All else has been set in Motion..Trying to Predict the outcome is the Challenge..Where do the Saudis...Iran..Syria..Lebanon..Egypt etc all fit in now...

What power plays are really going on..??

Why is Iran getting so Fiesty..with its Taunts and threats..?? What role do they and Have they played all along..??

Whos backing them..?? is that why they are getting so "Brave" Do they really want to staqrt more War..??

Why..??

Do they anticipate a Tight Political alliance with the Shia in Iraq..?? Will the Kurds support that..?

Will that alliance cause the new iraqi govt to demand our sudden and Complete Withdrawl..??

Would a Iraq.. Iran Alliance keep Turkey and other surrounding nations under Control..??
Who anticipates getting conrol of Most iraqi Oil..?? What deals are being made for Pipelines..
and Joint Venture Partnerships..?

Will the EU and UN groups wind up getting all the Deals..Partnerships with the United states having to withdraw ..

Were we sucked into nothing more that Creating a Reqime Change ..is that what this was really all about..Iran and the Shia Gain...we LOSE..?

How long will we Have to Stay and will it really do any good..???

"Justice" Implys some type of Judicial process.. When the Offender is Dead..or Incarcerated..and Punished...then the Offended have had thier
"Justice" and then there isw "Peace'' until someone wants more "Justice" ..

In the middle east..it seems that thier form of Justice Requires Blood Revenge in the Case of Murder ..Mr.Hakin demonstrates this in his reference to "THE~Pure Blood that has Flowed" regarding the murders of so many Innocent Shias and thier family members..

One can understand why they would want "JUSTICE"..thats OUR Excuse for Invading Iraq in the First place..We`are bringing the bad guys to "JUSTICE"

The Sunnis would be smart to want "PEACE" while they can..join the Process...Give up all the "Gangsters" who are Murdering people..and Realize that the Shias are looking for any excuse for revenge now..

You can feel it Coming...

or, as Pat said..It will be the Shias and Kurds now wanting revenge on the Sunnis and Baathists..and they are just waiting for Us to leave Iraq to do things the Old Fashioned Way.. and most Shia will support it..

The Sunnis and Baathist are demonstrating the same Defiance and Arrogance and
Bad Decision making that got them and Saddam in this Position in the First Place..

They are Truely "DIE HARDS"
and people Suffer..and the Innocent Die..

Because of "Die Hards'' and Fanatics..and LIARS..

Jerome Gaskins

Well, Colonel, prove me wrong if possible.

angela

Jerome:

I can show you are wrong. You wrote a few days ago:


------------------------
Okay, I may be wrong. But my gut tells me that it is time for the Shi'ites to do some ethnic cleansing of their own. Move the Sunnis out of Iraq. They have dominated Iraq for too long, and the Shi'ites should not stand for any more of it. Let the Saudis deal with them, or the Syrians or Egyptians.
-----------------------

You do not say "oh my goddess we may face atrocities worse than Saddams," your "gut" tells you that now is the time to start the murdering and driving six million from their homes.

This is wrong. It is morally despicable and driving milions of refugees into the Arab countries is a way to alienate us not just from the Arab oil producers, but all civilized people in this world.


W. Patrick Lang

Jerome,

I wish I had the time.. pl

wtofd

Col. Lang, do you see similar mistakes being made in delaying the question of Iraqi federalism and the delay in deciding the status of Jerusalem and Palestinian refugees? In other words, is it wise to wait on the biggest issues?

W. Patrick Lang

wtofd

In general the notion of waiting in a diplomatic process to deal with the really hard issues at the end of a process is generally wrong. what happens in such an approach is that there is an appearance of progress which stops when you get to the hard questions at the end. pl

Jerome Gaskins

That's okay, sir. I just think that peace is more secure when the aggrieved party has it's inequities addressed justly. BTW, I'll have that letter soon.

And angela, I also said

"Whoa, Angela, I'm not proposing killing even tens of people. The ethnic cleansing I'm talking about could just as easily be called gentrification, but I wasn't talking about converting slums..."

Did you not read this the first time I posted it, or are you just being selective in what you choose to point out? I answered the question you posed to me with this; the least you can do is consider it before you sound an alarm about my turpitude...

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